NMS-8250 video issues

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Por Rataplan

Champion (338)

Imagen del Rataplan

08-03-2023, 22:37

About 2 weeks ago I finally bought me a MSX2 again, a NMS8250. It's been about 32 years without a real MSX Smile Anyway, it worked fine for 2 weeks. Today I switch it on, and the video is like this:

https://youtu.be/gVm80nHJ_00

Initially I thought bad connection, I swapped scart cable and TV to no avail. But then I figured it's a repetitive pattern. When I use composite out though, it works fine, so video RAM and things are all fine. As the image pops to bad and good every few seconds, my guts say it's a cap on the video out board. Before I open the thing up (I need to do the audio mod (reversed cap on motherboard), SCC volume mod and maybe memory expansion), would anyone know what could cause this?

The only modification I've done to it so far, is that I changed the PSU from 220 to 240V. Apart from that the machine is original.

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Por Jipe

Paragon (1614)

Imagen del Jipe

09-03-2023, 10:11

try return to 220V
check the power supply +5V
check the solder of the scart
check the sync signal :verify Q314 2SC536, IC 302 74HC00, C301 220µF
check also the 5V on pin 16 (fast switching) of the scart and the Q315 2SC536
and the 12V on pin 8 (function switching) of the scart

Por gdx

Enlighted (6213)

Imagen del gdx

09-03-2023, 10:15

Have you checked the connector solders to the MSX board?

Por Rataplan

Champion (338)

Imagen del Rataplan

09-03-2023, 11:32

No I've not checked anything at all yet, except for switching cables and screen. It worked fine before, and it hasn't moved, neither have the scart connections. Now I'm the last to state nothing can break when you don't touch it, but I don't think the actual connection is the issue here. However, I'll open it up and resolder the connectors anyway.

As per returning to 220V, I don't think that's a good thing to do. The high voltage transformer is right next to my driveway, and I think that's the reason I actually measure 236V - 238V on my wall outlets. I'll measure voltages inside though.
Pin 8 is OK I think as the screen switches to the input when I switch on the MSX, and it stays on that input until I switch off again. The sync signal to the videoboard is OK too I guess, as using composite works fine. I assume to build up the composite signal, it needs those signals as well. I think it's in the very last part before going in to the scart connector. But I'll check all signals you mentioned. Alas I don't have an osciloscope anymore, the poor old thing died on me. Hope to get some time tonight Smile

Por Jipe

Paragon (1614)

Imagen del Jipe

09-03-2023, 13:52

see on the manual service the sync signal is not the same for scart and composite
the sync signal scart is making by Q314 2SC536, IC 302 74HC00, C301 220µF
the synch signal composite is just by Q301 Q302 2 x 2sc608

Por Rataplan

Champion (338)

Imagen del Rataplan

09-03-2023, 17:31

PSU delivers 5.00V exact on the 5V line, 11.90 on the 12V line. That should be in spec. Scart connections all measure out OK but I will still resolder them. I noticed when I switched it on today, it took like 6 or 7 seconds before it started glitching. After that when I switch of and on again, it starts glitching immediately. So that triggers me even more in thinking I'm looking for a bad cap. I'm going to measure them all now.

[edit]
I've just resoldered the SCART connector, that doesn't change anything. I've had some more time to test things. It only happens when the RED signal is needed. Ie. color 15,4 and 15,0 15,2 and 15,3 work fine, stable image. Color 15,8 and 15,9 for example make it go berzerk. So I looked at the service manual (I seem to have a bad copy, but it's usable) C303 and C306 are fine, but I still replaced them. So I'm looking at Q308 now, maybe bad transistor?
As far as I'm concerned, it's not SYNC that is lost. The image is still stable, ie. not wobbling or going out of sync, but just losing information. Now I must say I found my schematic reading skills have drastly gone bad over the last 20 years or so. But when I look at the sync signal, if I read correctly, that would have nothing to do with individual RGB components. It comes from the CSYNC signal from the VDP. While composite sync works, and the image stays in sync in SCART too, I ASSUME that part to be still ok.

Does my thinking make sense? What could make the image go bad when a specific color kicks in?

Por Jipe

Paragon (1614)

Imagen del Jipe

09-03-2023, 18:03

the red signal going to the composite Pal encoder video is direct from the VDP
that of the scart socket goes through an amp
check C303 10µF, Q308 2SA608, C306 330µF and the solder around
zoom the PDF to 400% for more details Wink

Por Pentarou

Hero (523)

Imagen del Pentarou

09-03-2023, 18:14

Is that a B&O TV? Have you tried another TV?
It looks like it's switching between RGB and something else, could be trying to switch to S-Video.

Por Grauw

Ascended (10768)

Imagen del Grauw

09-03-2023, 19:02

It kinda looks like it has chrominance information without luminance.

Por Pentarou

Hero (523)

Imagen del Pentarou

09-03-2023, 19:03

A non connected Fast-Blanking pin (SCART pin 16) would leave the TV in composite mode, a fluctuating voltage instead would cause the RGB/Composite switching.
However the black screen + strange colours shown in the video doesn't look like composite.
It could be that the TV is set to default to S-Video instead of composite, that could explain the bizarre problem with the red (as the chroma signal component is transferred via the red connection), or the TV could be defective. Sorry OP, we need more info.

Por Rataplan

Champion (338)

Imagen del Rataplan

09-03-2023, 19:41

It's a B&O MX4200, I have several of them. But on a Sony trinitron crt, same thing. There's no other source connected to switch to. and B&O isn't fast with switching anyway, it's not that. But as said it only does that when the red signal has to come in. I can show a video but you'll get what I mean. I'm looking for a replacement transistor for Q308. If I can't find an equivalent I'll swap it with the green one to see if problem moves.

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