MSX RAMBO III vs. Amiga RAMBO .... Why?

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By Manuel

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15-05-2015, 21:22

It's a bit odd to compare the Amiga with an MSX1... But this is not a brilliant Amiga game, it hardly uses its capabilities. Hence the remarks that this game could be done fine on MSX2. OTOH, as already remarked as well, the MSX1 conversion hardly uses the possibilities of the MSX1, as it's a straight Spectrum port.

Still, you're comparing a 16-bit machine with a very powerful custom graphics chip with a 8-bit machine with a standard graphics chip from the early 80's...

By yzi

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16-05-2015, 10:20

We can say it, the v9958 looks embarrassing next to the R800. And turbo R was released an incredible five years after the Amiga. Dropping the v9978 was horrible.

The Amiga's architecture was designed to be like an arcade game, and it really was.
Just check out something like R-type II for Amiga
Would that be possible even by using all of the half decade newer MSX turbo R's R800 CPU power?

Let's think about it. It's 1990, you live in Europe, and you're in search of a home computer. You look at various machines for computing and graphics power, games, maybe home applications, programming your own games and demos... Why would you pick MSX turbo R ST over Amiga 500? You'd have to have a very strong MSX background for it to make any sense. And/or live in Japan. If I remember correctly, the Amiga never got Japanese language support.

By meits

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16-05-2015, 10:32

Here's some bits and pieces I think to remember reading in various MSX media in the past.
Panasonic was in a hurry to release the things because they wanted to go on with their 3DO and leave MSX (sounds weird because why wouldn't they be able to manufacture both at the same time).
Therefore they didn't want to wait for Yamaha to release the sequel to the v9958 (that sounds plausible).

My own thought of the above things from vague memory are that it's quite weird to release two turbo R models and even two revisions of the FS-A1ST (in the mid 90s some hareware guy told me there were traces of a MFM interface onboard the first series of the ST. I never read anything about it anywhere). When you're in a hurry to get rid of MSX, you don't release a GT model some years later...
I'd like to see some facts on a timeline once to find out why the turbo R really was such a weird combination of fast r800 and slow v9958...

By sniper22477

Master (248)

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16-05-2015, 10:33

Hi Daemos ....
I didn't overestimate in comparison between MSX & Amiga, but let me tell you why MSX is far better in everything:

1- I played MSX & Amiga and if we compare the games of each computer, I can tell that Amiga is like MSX2 "only"... even some MSX2 games is better, for example King Kong 2 and Super RAMBO Special.

2- MSX is the only computer in the planet that sustained tell today ... and nowadays .... Some MSX games sold at range of Euro 200 - Euro 900 while Amiga games are sold below Euro 50 ... I know Amiga games are Disk Games and can be copied but even though MSX Disk Games still very expensive.

Finally, I am not comparing the computers here ... But MSX is the KING of computers.

Note for Admin: Sorry I can't control my self.

Final Note: MSX turbo R FS-A1 GT is the best computer of all times.


Ibrahim (Sniper)

By Grauw

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16-05-2015, 15:18

From what I heard, there were delays in the V9978 production so it didn’t make the cut for the turboR?

yzi: Apart from the multi layer background scroll, yeah I think MSX2+ can do that. The game only runs at 20-30 fps it seems. And of course V9990 can do it with ease, at 60fps, would’ve definitely been nice if that had made it into a V9978 for the turboR no doubt. Taking another Amiga game as example, I think an MSX2+ version of Turrican could be made.

sniper: I love your spirit! Yeah! MSX IS THE BEST!

By yzi

Champion (444)

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16-05-2015, 16:05

The layered parallax scroll was the reason I linked to that time position. Wink Of course, it's possible to do any game with any machine, if you're willing to remove features. Fewer colors, blockier scrolling, flickering sprites, slower update speed, simpler sounds, etc.

I wonder why other manufacturers didn't learn from Amiga's Copper chip. Being able to write the display control logic in copperlists was a huge enabler in making all the arcade-like graphics possible. Just think what a difference it would make if you could change all parameters and addresses on the fly, with simple control code programs that the video chip runs autonomously in perfect display synchronization without any CPU intervention, no interrupts or anything. If you could trigger any VDP parameter change at programmable screen row/column addresses, trigger blitter commands...

In a sense, the Copper is what makes Amiga's graphics hardware resemble modern GPU shader programming, even more than the blitter. The Copper turns the whole thinking upside-down. Instead of writing CPU commands like "do this manipulation work, and when it's ready, re-check everything, where we are again..." you can write a command for every screen position. It's not possible for a Copper command to "take too long". In some way, writing a copperlist feels like writing a pixel/fragment shader.

By sniper22477

Master (248)

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16-05-2015, 16:46

Thanks Grauw.....

Finally .... Whenever I have a discussion with my friends about history of computers .... And when it comes to games ... Everyone will have a different opinion of what is the computer that has great games ... Either MSX, Commodore, Amiga, Amstrad etc..... And for a years I am using the same strategy ... I said: MSX has The Castle, Castle Excellent, Penguin Adventure, Metal Gear and Knightmare ... And if someone argued that the graphics are very simple and the game design is normal .... I just say: MSX2 Metal Gear II Solid Snake.... And the everybody will be in silent mode and the conversation is over.



By Jupp3

Resident (41)

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16-05-2015, 17:39

If you want to show off parallax scrolling on Amiga, I'd rather link to Kid Chaos, or if you prefer older games, Shadow of the Beast. Or some rather nice (partially) faked 3D like Captive II - Liberation.

Of course some Amiga games could have been made on MSX2 nicely, games like Pinball Dreams & Fantasies, Cadaver and maybe even Chaos Engine.

Of course with some "downgrades", unlike the mentioned Rambo game, these are actually good Amiga games, although not trying to circumvent every hardware restriction possible :-)

By fernando.collazo.5682

Champion (257)

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17-05-2015, 03:42

In my opinion, the MSX turboR is able to defeat Atari ST anytime, but I don´t think the MSX turboR without V9990 can compare to Amiga, so we need the V9978/90. If Amiga had the same support from Japanese companies, I think the story would have been different and maybe, maybe, the MSX had stopped in the first generation.
What makes MSX great, are the awesome japanese games library with amazing gameplay. Ok, there are some good western games, but you know what I´m talking about ...

By sniper22477

Master (248)

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17-05-2015, 17:54

Dear Fernando .....
I respect your view ... and may be you are right since you are talking technically. But .. again and again ... and I will convince you with my experience. Last time I played MSX was in 1988, which means 27 or 28 years back. In December 2014, I was thinking about MSX and should I start playing MSX again even I am almost 40 years old. Just to tell you and to tell everybody here in the forum, me and two of my friends .. we all purchased MSX computers recently and I've got TR-GT and start playing again. Other friends, who played Amiga and Commodore in the past and they are crazy Amiga/Commodore players... they said they can't play Amiga or Commodore games again and they preferred SONY 4 and XBOX ONE.

I hope now ... that I delivered my message... I mean ... MSX is the only brand that still sustain and has the same power or even more powerful than 80's. I challenge anyone here in the forum to give me any computer that still has the same power of MSX.

We are all MSX ... I love MSX

Note to Admin: Sorry again ... but .. again ... I can't control my self.



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