Aiky asks for fangame to be removed

Prophet (3156)

11-06-2004, 16:35

Thank you for include this as a news post.
I am happy to know that AIKY (former Compile) is so concerned about the MSX system. I hope that all this indicates a new era for the MSX and that AIKY will publish more and more games for the MSX2 system.

Kind regards,
Ed Robsy

By SLotman

Paragon (1242)

11-06-2004, 16:40

it's a pity the game is offline... but if serves as consolation, if it was a bad programmed game I doubt that AIKY would mind about it, so the request for taking it down is almost like they saying: "your game is too well done and will compete with ours in quality, so please remove it" =)

Keep up the good work Ed =)

By tfh

Prophet (3430)

11-06-2004, 17:44

I don't think Aiky is "concerned about MSX", but just about the commercial value of their products. Can't blame them for that though...

By DarQ

Paragon (1038)

11-06-2004, 18:59

come on dude, give it another name, maybe change the tileset and there you go.

By [D-Tail]

Ascended (8263)

11-06-2004, 19:00

That could cause some serious trouble, DarQ... Aiky is pretty serious about this, I suppose.

By DarQ

Paragon (1038)

11-06-2004, 19:02

then change a bit more.. they cant patent just a concept

By Grauw

Ascended (10821)

11-06-2004, 19:09

DarQ: that is actually exactly what we suggested pitpan to do about a year ago...

By Grauw

Ascended (10821)

11-06-2004, 19:21

But, be that as it may be, I am glad Robsy is such a sport about this. It's ofcourse not that this is not the way I want it, but I can imagine it to be a tough decision. However, let's also look at the bright side: it shows that Aiky is really serious about investing in MSX again.

~Grauw

By DarQ

Paragon (1038)

11-06-2004, 19:33

then he should fix it NOW..

By konamiman

Paragon (1211)

11-06-2004, 20:03

Copied from Robsy's web:

"It seems that Aiky Co. (former Compile) has tried to contact me through e-mail, but they have received no response. The problem is that I use a web-based e-mail system, the well-known Hotmail, and I haven't the japanese character set installed, and so, all that I could see was strange ASCII characters with no sense at all. So, I concluded that it was spam and I deleted them without noticing that they were personal communications."

What I can't understand, is why Aiky did not write the message in english. What were they thinking when writing to Spain in japanese??

Anyway, my opinion about all of this: if this strict claiming for copyrights will have a compensation for us (in the form of new software for MSX from Aiky or other japanese companies), then it is OK. Otherwise, I would suggest to go on with renaming-and-republishing the game.

By Grauw

Ascended (10821)

11-06-2004, 20:07

As we are developing GLC for Aiky right now I think you can assume that there will be a 'compensation' . About renaming-and-republishing... I think that it is a bit too late for that now.

~Grauw

By Grauw

Ascended (10821)

11-06-2004, 20:10

About the English: they probably did include it, but perhaps put the original Japanese text before the translation. So when viewed, it would show Japanese first (or squares, in Robsy's case ), which he explained he thought was spam and threw away.

~Grauw

By pitpan

Prophet (3156)

11-06-2004, 20:14

Thanks for all the suggestions, but for me this subject is closed. I would neither publish it again nor make a clone. At the moment I am involved in other MSX game projects that will be soon published for MSXdev'04.

Some people has contacted me by e-mail to ask for a copy of the ROM file. Of course, I have rejected this, and as I pointed in the letter, if you have it, please remove it or, at least, do not distribute it.

I know that all this could happen, as I pointed in the original GURU LOGIC page in my site, and as soon as I received (indirectly) a complaint from AIKY I stopped distributing it: they are the legally entitled owners.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (6562)

11-06-2004, 21:22

A suggestion : why not include the pitpan MSX1 GURU LOGIC as free bonus with the future commercial MSX2 GURU LOGIC ? So, all gamers that should buy the MSX2 version should be very happy to receive a MSX1 version of the "same" game and it would also prove that a commercial strategy could be compatible with the diffusion of freeware as bonus with a non-freeware product. What do you think about that, Grauw ?

By Grauw

Ascended (10821)

11-06-2004, 21:56

Well, I don't think that's a good idea for several reasons: 1. I highly doubt Robsy would agree with that , 2. I also don't think it will really add much value, 3. it would be plain weird to us, and 4. we really don't have the disk space.

~Grauw

By ricbit

Champion (438)

11-06-2004, 23:17

If disk space is the issue, then I offer my Rambo Plus compression routines, they are better than gif for msx screens.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (10135)

12-06-2004, 01:51

Forget the compression A commercial product should be taken seriously. Putting other things on it might sound fun, but from a professional point of view, you just don't do that kinda things.

so what grauw means to say is actually: [5] it's not gonna happen..hmmkay?

By spl

Paragon (1470)

12-06-2004, 08:57

Pitpan, so you will leave all your clone projects like Duck Hunt, SPF 2 or Dinamite Dux? What a pity about Guru Logic, HAVE AIKY ASK TO REMOVE ALL THE TEDDYWAREZ VERSIONS?

I think they are wrong, but.... we can't fight against them.

Yours,

By spl

Paragon (1470)

12-06-2004, 09:01

Sorry with the question, it's a misunderstanding about "I would neither publish it again nor make a clone."

Now the question is: With this problem, will you continue making some game versions of clones? Imanok have made some very good clones and he never had any problem.

Yours,

By DarQ

Paragon (1038)

12-06-2004, 09:14

wolf_: the pitfal for ps contains an msx version of pitfal as well.
pitpan: dont be an ass please and send me the damn rom

By pitpan

Prophet (3156)

12-06-2004, 11:26

Ask anyone else, but not me. I am serious about this, because AIKY told me to stop the distribution. I do not want to hurt Compile's rights, as I said from the begining. I do not agree with the MSX Revival in the way it is being done, but I do not want to prevent former MSX companies to join it.

By Bernard

Resident (51)

12-06-2004, 11:39

Copied from Robsy's web:

"It seems that Aiky Co. (former Compile) has tried to contact me through e-mail, but they have received no response. The problem is that I use a web-based e-mail system, the well-known Hotmail, and I haven't the japanese character set installed, and so, all that I could see was strange ASCII characters with no sense at all. So, I concluded that it was spam and I deleted them without noticing that they were personal communications."

Hmm, I cannot help finding the above explanation a bit awkward.

Robsy might not have received a direct mail in English from Aiky. I did however contact him (in English) about this matter in June last year. I made it quite clear that Aiky did not appreciate MSX Guru Logic clones being distributed. I never received an answer to that mail.

By pitpan

Prophet (3156)

12-06-2004, 11:44

I received e-mails from the GURU LOGIC TEAM and other MSX users, but they are not the legally entitled owners, and so they don't have any rights over the GURU LOGIC trademark.
I have decided to put it off-line and stop distributing it after the first CLEAR message from AIKY itself (not very clear, indeed, after translating it using Babelfish). I do not want to polemize about this: the owner has been clear about its interests and I have acted consecuently.

By Bart

Paragon (1422)

12-06-2004, 12:14

But Agony is not Aiky also. And when he contacted you, you took it serious. But when Bernhard contacted you a year ago already, you didn't take it serious?! I don't see the difference.

By pitpan

Prophet (3156)

12-06-2004, 12:23

Ok, boys, allright: you have won. I accept it, now please let it go.

By sunrise

Paragon (1091)

12-06-2004, 12:34

I think there are only losers. I can understand why Pitpan accept it more from a landsman than from a foreigner who is a dutchman.
I should do same , in other words I accept earlier something from Bernard then from Agony e.g. , that's someone's nature. Valid for matters concerning Japan ofcourse and related to MSX Association

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

12-06-2004, 13:38

What a pity about Guru Logic, HAVE AIKY ASK TO REMOVE ALL THE TEDDYWAREZ VERSIONS?
TeddyWareZ has VOLUNTARILY canceled Guru Logic V1/V2 as soon as they heard about Compile's plans with the game on MSX. The decent thing to do, to my opinion.

By pitpan

Prophet (3156)

12-06-2004, 13:38

Of course, what Sunrise points is true. ag0ny is spanish, like me, but I consider him a friend: he phoned me to tell me the facts, not to threaten me. He also forwarded me all the original posts from AIKY that I discarded, and then I could read them.

What really pisses me off is that there seems to be some MSXers that are happy to know that a freeware MSX game has been banned. It is a shame for a hobbist community.

Now you can say whatever you want to say: I won't continue discussing this subject.

Kind regards to all MSX users,

Edward A. Robsy Petrus

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

12-06-2004, 13:52

It's like with the anime fansub community. They translate japanese anime to english and spread it for free. If they find out a company intends to release that anime in english, distribution is immediately ceased.
Edward translates non-MSX games to MSX and spreads them for free. He should've stopped distribution as soon as he found out a company intended to release it on MSX. Which he heard from the development team more than a year ago.

It's a question of bad morals, really.

By spl

Paragon (1470)

12-06-2004, 14:56

"Now you can say whatever you want to say: I won't continue discussing this subject."

OK, for myself, I'll stop with this subject. Have a good day and SUCCESS in your works!

Yours fraternally,

By Grauw

Ascended (10821)

12-06-2004, 17:37

ricbit: we already use our own very good compression routines, but thanks .

Vindicator: TeddyWareZ is actually *in* the 'GURU LOGIC TEAM'. So that's fairly obvious.

'Direct contact': a mail 'directly' from Aiky will probably always be in Japanese as I doubt they know a lot of English... English contacts with Japan usually go through Ikeda, Bernard Lamers or (I think) Ag0ny, who can translate.

DarQ: if you really want to play GLC on MSX that much, buy ours when it's out. With the blessings of Compile/Aiky.

Robsy: I don't think you should be pissed off as you get a fair share of support from people in these reactions as well. And we told you from the beginning this could happen, and definately without threats of any kind, we even offered some constructive suggestions.

Anyways, as far as I'm concerned this discussion is now over as well.

~Grauw

By yopparai

Supporter (4)

12-06-2004, 23:46

all who downloaded the fangame while it was online were (either implicitly or explicitly) granted the right to redistribute it, and that can't be revoked ex-post facto, so it'll reappear online over the next few days anyway. It's funny to see people attempting to stop the inevitable anyway.

By TheSpecialist

Expert (113)

13-06-2004, 00:42

it's funny how you think the law works

By DarQ

Paragon (1038)

13-06-2004, 12:15

@yopparai
well, you can send it to me. anyone who has i can send it to me!

By TheSpecialist

Expert (113)

13-06-2004, 13:38

@yopparai & DarQ: By distributing this game you would commit THEFT, which is punishable by law.
You have to understand this game was not retracted just because the author says so, no, it's been retracted because it's partial stolen property.

Now if you wanna be a little internet anarchist, that's your choice, but just realize it's a very childish thing to do.

By DarQ

Paragon (1038)

13-06-2004, 17:21

@TheSpecialist
i have eeh, some illegal mp3... some msx games which i didnt buy eehm.. well, thats just as childish as asking for robsy's guru logic don't you think?

By tfh

Prophet (3430)

13-06-2004, 21:00

Well, officially, MRC shouldn't host re-arenged songs of computer/pop/whatever music either, unless rights have been optained from the original composer. According to law, you are allowed to play others people tracks, but to distribute them, not even in re-arenged form.
Same as for using samples, you cannot just do that. Although the law has some openings if you you less then x seconds (or "maten")... but, Í don't knwo the exact details.

By Bart

Paragon (1422)

14-06-2004, 09:13

TFH, what in the world have the moonblaster files on MRC to do with this issue between Aiky and Robsy? Would you please stay on topic? Discussing the legal status of the mb files hosted at MRC can be done in the forums...

By tfh

Prophet (3430)

14-06-2004, 09:59

Bart,
Read some of the reactions above and then read my post again. It's not related to the original topic, but it is related to the discussion.
But don'get me wrong, I don't really care much about it, just though that crossed my mind, so.. count to 10, take a deap breath and cool down

By pitpan

Prophet (3156)

14-06-2004, 12:01

I have corrected some details from my letter and I have also included the original letter from AIKY, in japanese.

Check it here - http://www.robsy.net/guru.htm

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

14-06-2004, 17:46

Didn't you delete the original letter as spam?
Besides, I highly doubt Aiky would have sent a Spanish user a letter in Japanese only.

By DarQ

Paragon (1038)

14-06-2004, 20:12

indeed vindicator. that is very ridiculous. its typical

By sjoerd

Hero (611)

14-06-2004, 20:50

@dark:

What is typical?

And why are you suddenly so interested in this game? Why didn't you download it earlier?

By DarQ

Paragon (1038)

14-06-2004, 21:43

sometimes im just not interested enough at that particular moment. i didnt download coral demo when i first came, no... i downloaded it only yesterday. the same goes for robsy's snailmaze, i didnt download that when i read the news about it, but a big while later.

and what i find so typical, is that this letter is in japanese, just as everything is japanese there. AFAIK they sent a spanish dude a japanese letter. do they really think he can just read that?? ah, the same counts for the msx revival, which is still unreadable for us.
i find it really stupid of aiky that they just didnt bother to write it in a worldwide readable language.

By TheSpecialist

Expert (113)

14-06-2004, 22:03

You actually believe they would be so stupid to send a spanish user a japanese mail????
You must be one of the few people actually believing that.

By snout

Ascended (15187)

14-06-2004, 22:04

I wouldn't be to sure about Aiky sending that e-mail only in Japanese. As far as I know the e-mail was (at least) sent in English as well. Besides, Aiky did approach Javi Lavandeira to translate a mail into Spanish as well.

By pitpan

Prophet (3156)

14-06-2004, 22:39

The e-mail that I have put on-line is the one that I received, directly forwarded by ag0ny. And there was no english part in it. Was there an english translation in the earlier messages? Perhaps, but I do not know, because I deleted them without reading: the name of the sender and the topic of the message were just squares and strange symbols with no meaning at all.

But if you don't believe me, don't worry. I don't believe in many of your "truths".

By DarQ

Paragon (1038)

14-06-2004, 22:41

well claiming dudes, i said it was in japanese and so did the person that received it, and more than once! some of you are quite stubborn

By pitpan

Prophet (3156)

14-06-2004, 22:47

TheSpecialist has been always very polite. For example, he was the guy that after hacking the GURU LOGIC game that I coded, published all the passwords in the MRC forum. Of course, without playing the game...

By DarQ

Paragon (1038)

14-06-2004, 23:20

thats why he's called TheSpecialst

By Sama

Ambassador (2070)

14-06-2004, 23:32

Pitpan: I can assure you at least the first mail you received was written in English as well as Japanese, since Aiky asked me to make the translation (I am a sworn translator and I have done almost all correspondence with the Japanese parties concerning Guru Logic) which was sent to you right after it was made.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

15-06-2004, 02:07

(The opinions in this message are only mine. I'm not posting on behalf of Aiky, the MSX Association, or any other company or organization)

To snout:

I don't know about the first email they sent (I never saw it), but the second one was in English only. Also, I have never translated anything into Spanish for them yet.

To all:

This is getting silly already. I think it doesn't matter much whether the original email was in English, Japanese, Spanish or Swahili. The game is offline now and in my opinion, there's nothing left for Aiky to be upset anymore (nor you, for that matter). Case closed.

It would be better to stop beating the dead horse. Eduardo seems to be the only one here(*) handling the subject in a professional way.

(*) And on HispaMSX, where most of the other "users" are posting stupidities about Aiky without even having the slightest idea of how the status of things is now in Japan.

(The opinions in this message are only mine. I'm not posting on behalf of Aiky, the MSX Association, or any other company or organization)

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

15-06-2004, 02:13

Ooops, my mistake. In the previous message I wrote this:

"...but the second one was in <b>English</b> only..."

Obviously, this is a mistake. It should read:

"...but the second one was in <b>Japanese</b> only..."

By pitpan

Prophet (3156)

15-06-2004, 09:01

Rikusu: may I ask you to send me directly the english translation of the first e-mail? I asume that you still have a copy of it. I am curious about the message, that is all.
Thank you.

The second e-mail, if I have understood it after the BABEL-FISH translation, was a bit agressive, because I did not reply the first one.

By snout

Ascended (15187)

15-06-2004, 09:22

Javi: I agree with you on most points, but...

The second mail was sent in Japanese only. True. But I understood Aiky had asked you to translate that mail into Spanish in order to send it to Pitpan. It was your choice to give Pitpan a call first and not Aiky's mistake that the e-mail is now only available in Japanese.

Second, I don't know if I call the way Pitpan handles this professional. True, he took the game offline as he promised on his website, but as I stated before it seemed like Pitpan was trying to get as much attention as he possibly could get for Guru Logic, IMHO trying to get a reaction from either Team GLC or Aiky. Which he got. Now that the game is offline, even though Aiky has specifically asked him not to publish the sent e-mails or publish any other information about the communication between him and Aiky without asking permission first, it seems that Pitpan is trying to draw as much attention as he can to this situation he could have expected from the moment Team GLC (who were aware of Aiky's policy towards this, after receiving the request to take the TeddyWareZ GLC offline) contacted him. Furthermore, he was contacted before, in English, by Bernard Lamers, on behalf of Aiky, and did not even respond to that e-mail.

The first e-mail sent straight from Aiky to Robsy was indeed translated by Rikusu, who is indeed a sworn translator Japanese. I think it's at least a bit odd to treat a mail from @aiky.biz as spam, knowing that you made a fangame of this company and stated you'd like to get in touch with this company. Aiky might have included a Japanese version of the mail as well, the e-mail might have had Japanese headers, but I am sure the e-mail contained a full and correct English translation as well. So, it seems to me that Robsy is at least bending the facts a little here. But hey, I'm only the project manager of Team GLC. What do I know .

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

15-06-2004, 10:51

(like before, I'm talking on my own behalf, not any company or organization)

Aiky did not ask me anything. Neither did Yokoi. He just told me (casually, when we were going for dinner) that Aiky got in touch with him about this, and that he was worried. Since I know Eduardo, I volunteered to see what I could do. I asked Yokoi for permission to forward to Eduardo the mail he got from Aiky, and he agreed. The next morning I called Eduardo by phone and told him what was going on. It was then when he told me he had never seen the first email, and when he asked me for the mail to be sent again. After talking to him, I called Yokoi and told him what had happened. As per Eduardo's request, Aiky sent the mail again. Eduardo got the email, managed to translate it using Babelfish, saw what was going on, and removed the game as he said he would do. Problem solved.

This should make things clear. All this babbling about who contacted who first, in what language, and for whatever reason is completely irrelevant now. And contraproductive. We have all many things to do, and it doesn't make any sense (in my humble opinion) to waste our time here discussing about the details of something that has been solved already. If there's anything else to say (which I doubt), let Aiky be who says it.

I, for one, don't intend to spend more time on this subject (specially because it has nothing to do with me). I won't reply to any comments posted here from now on, no matter how offensive or clueless they might be. I'm not implying that any of the messages posted until now have been offensive, but new ones could be. There have been some clueless posts, though.

Please note too, that I'm not taking any sides on this subject. The last thing I want is to be in the middle of a crossfire regarding something that, as I said, doesn't have anything to do with me. If you want to continue with this, then go on. In the meanwhile, I'll be somewhere else at least trying to do something useful.

If someone needs to contact me, you know where to find me (http://www.ag0ny.com or ag0ny@ag0ny.com).

(and again, just in case: I'm talking on my own behalf, not any company or organization)

By Grauw

Ascended (10821)

15-06-2004, 13:50

Right. Discussion closed now, please?

By spl

Paragon (1470)

15-06-2004, 23:35

PLEASE, BE more polite with Pitpan and Ag0ny and STOP DISCUSSING!

Pitpan asked US to stop. I've stopped... but some of us... NO

Yours,

By spl

Paragon (1470)

15-06-2004, 23:39

Also Ag0ny, I must say one thing: I am one of the Spanish MSX Users who have criticized Aiky. But also I am one of the first who have stopped with this subject saying in HISPAMSX: "Stop with this subject! And now support the new projects of Robsy!" I am a simple user, not a proffessional.

Yours respectfuly

By karloch

Prophet (2159)

16-06-2004, 11:41

(*) And on HispaMSX, where most of the other "users" are posting stupidities about Aiky without even having the slightest idea of how the status of things is now in Japan.As an HispaMSX user that I am, I exposed my opinion about the topic in a correct and polite way I think. Of course, we don't know the situation in Japan, but I don't think that *every* opinion at HispaMSX would be a "stupidity".

In the other hand, I agree with you about talking anymore about this: some thing happend, the people expose their opinions and the case is closed. Aiky is the legal owner of the copyrights of Gruru Logic and, we like it or not, they has fully rights to do what they have done. It is something completely logical.

Greetings!

Aiky asks for fangame to be removed

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