MSXdev22 #19 Sales Discontinued

Van geijoenr

Champion (364)

24-09-2022, 22:52

what the hell... this is definitely not the kind of hobby games we are used to in msxdev!

Van Uninteresting

Champion (352)

24-09-2022, 23:08

Some people went all out... a big difference (and improvement) to the previous adventure game entries in MSXdev over the years, I think.

Van Latok

msx guru (3938)

24-09-2022, 23:41

It's in a different league, really

Van tfh

Prophet (3346)

24-09-2022, 23:59

OMG....
TFH picks his jaw up from the floor...
WTF... 36MByte for an MSX game? Ok, you do need a high spec MSX machine, but I never imagined something like this could be done on our beloved 8 bit system..

Van Ivan

Ascended (9353)

24-09-2022, 23:59

I have played it a bit and I already know what game is going to be the winner of this MSXdev edition

Van shalafi

Master (137)

25-09-2022, 00:49

tfh wrote:

OMG....
TFH picks his jaw up from the floor...
WTF... 36MByte for an MSX game? Ok, you do need a high spec MSX machine, but I never imagined something like this could be done on our beloved 8 bit system..

Tu put in context, that is larger than the original "Secret of Monkey Island"

Van gdx

Enlighted (6212)

25-09-2022, 09:33

I was happy to finally see a game for HDD but, too bad, it doesn't launch without OPL4. I couldn't even run the MAMUAL.COM on my turbo R because it crashes.

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

25-09-2022, 10:02

gdx wrote:

.. too bad, it doesn't launch without OPL4.

Finally a reason to get one!

Van Ivan

Ascended (9353)

25-09-2022, 10:27

Is it possible to upgrade a Moonsound with 128kB to 512kB?

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

25-09-2022, 10:53

Ivan wrote:

Is it possible to upgrade a Moonsound with 128kB to 512kB?

Yes, if you know how. Depending on the version you have, it might have an empty socket for that. Maybe Repair Bas can help your with that. We have tried it on a v1 Moonsound ourselves, but did not succeed.

The V2 version we have now has 1MB (removed the old 128K from it's socket and replaced it with a 512K chip. Added a 2nd 512K in the already empty socket).

Van Ivan

Ascended (9353)

25-09-2022, 12:00

SjaaQ wrote:

Yes, if you know how. Depending on the version you have, it might have an empty socket for that. Maybe Repair Bas can help your with that. We have tried it on a v1 Moonsound ourselves, but did not succeed.

The V2 version we have now has 1MB (removed the old 128K from it's socket and replaced it with a 512K chip. Added a 2nd 512K in the already empty socket).

On mine the output connector is on the right side (MoonSound Wiki). It is the v2 version. Don’t know if those 512kB SRAM chips are easy to get, though.

Van KdL

Paragon (1450)

25-09-2022, 13:34

Ivan wrote:

Is it possible to upgrade a Moonsound with 128kB to 512kB?

Yes, on my Moonsound v2.0 I mounted two Hitachi HM628512LP-7.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/401706327631

Van sd_snatcher

Prophet (3659)

25-09-2022, 16:38

tfh wrote:

but I never imagined something like this could be done on our beloved 8 bit system..

My exact thoughts! Kudos for everyone at NOP.

The graphics feel converterish though. Not sure if this was intentional as a style.

Van ATroubleshooter

Expert (106)

25-09-2022, 16:55

Wow, that's gorgeous!

Van meits

Scribe (6542)

25-09-2022, 17:02

I want the disk version

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

25-09-2022, 17:03

sd_snatcher wrote:

The graphics feel converterish though. Not sure if this was intentional as a style.

It was meant to look like a Super Nintendo / Sega Megadrive kind of style. And all graphics are, in fact, converted from PNG to screen 8. Because I'm not going to edit that on a MSX.

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

25-09-2022, 17:05

meits wrote:

I want the disk version

No problem, send me 50 working disks.

Van dracul

Master (168)

25-09-2022, 17:17

This is exactly the kind of game that I was sure the MSX was capable of! Excellent!

Van albs_br

Champion (473)

25-09-2022, 18:33

Incredible! So far, the best entry.

Van KdL

Paragon (1450)

25-09-2022, 18:52

I tried the game on the SX-2 with OCM-PLD firmware version 3.9.1 and it works very well!

Van Ivan

Ascended (9353)

25-09-2022, 19:00

SjaaQ wrote:

meits wrote:

I want the disk version

No problem, send me 50 working disks.

Be willing to think further. Once the contest is over, in the coming months, you could release a physical limited edition of the game with a professional packaging. Many local printing houses are able to do that at a reasoanable price. And a cartridge would be cheaper than some dozens of 2DD disks... Don't ask me for more than €300, though:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275465845060

:)

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

25-09-2022, 19:06

The design and media for the deluxe version (physical) are already in progress. But that would be on SD card.

So I am sorry to disappoint, but the super rare 50 disk version might never be on ebay. Mostly it will never exist.

Van wolf_

Ambassador_ (10109)

25-09-2022, 19:20

[o_o] "Disks Killed the Tape Star"

Van Pac

Scribe (7007)

25-09-2022, 19:27

SjaaQ wrote:

sd_snatcher wrote:

The graphics feel converterish though. Not sure if this was intentional as a style.

It was meant to look like a Super Nintendo / Sega Megadrive kind of style. And all graphics are, in fact, converted from PNG to screen 8. Because I'm not going to edit that on a MSX.

Did you try to apply some dithering effect if this could improve quality?

Definitely small stuff is not for NOP. I couldn't resist and I had to test it in real hardware. Thank you for this colossal production.

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

25-09-2022, 19:33

Pac wrote:

Did you try to apply some dithering effect if this could improve quality?

We used a customer graphics convertor, yes. It was written to get the best result for game. The dithering is more or less tuned to the scene. Some have more than others.

Van Ivan

Ascended (9353)

25-09-2022, 19:35

SjaaQ wrote:

The design and media for the deluxe version (physical) are already in progress. But that would be on SD card.

I would be disappointed if you only include an SD card. At least include the cartridge interface. I own this: Sunrise CF interface.

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

25-09-2022, 19:43

Ivan wrote:

SjaaQ wrote:

The design and media for the deluxe version (physical) are already in progress. But that would be on SD card.

I would be disappointed if you only include an SD card. At least include the cartridge interface. I own this: Sunrise CF interface.

With the number of donations coming in (one since launch) I am not going to invest in that. We did consider building a mapper type which support for 64M or something. But it would be a better idea to have a custom GR8NET interface without the network part. That does take care of most the requirements.

Van erpirao

Paragon (1315)

25-09-2022, 21:34

A production like this deserves all our support.
a greeting.

Van sd_snatcher

Prophet (3659)

25-09-2022, 23:29

SjaaQ wrote:

And all graphics are, in fact, converted from PNG to screen 8. Because I'm not going to edit that on a MSX.

Definitely I also wouldn't. Life is too short for that!

But, anyway, it's still possible to make pixel art images on a modern PC/Mac. But don't worry about my old man mumbling. The game is an impressive feat anyway.

Van Ramon Ribas Casasayas

Resident (46)

25-09-2022, 23:36

Is it possible to upgrade Moonsound v1.0 to 512 kB?

Van wolf_

Ambassador_ (10109)

25-09-2022, 23:57

Ramon Ribas Casasayas wrote:

Is it possible to upgrade Moonsound v1.0 to 512 kB?

Yes, but you gotta piggyback the new RAM onto the old RAM. I'd let someone attend to it who knows a thing or two about electronics.

Btw, would advice to go for 640 kb, meaning the internal 128 + the new 512.

Van Ivan

Ascended (9353)

26-09-2022, 00:59

SjaaQ wrote:

The design and media for the deluxe version (physical) are already in progress. But that would be on SD card.
…
…
With the number of donations coming in (one since launch) I am not going to invest in that. We did consider building a mapper type which support for 64M or something. But it would be a better idea to have a custom GR8NET interface without the network part. That does take care of most the requirements.

Mmm… including a custom GR8NET without the network part is a great idea!!! I would gladly pay whatever it costs that MSX “Plug & Play ready” version with such special cartridge. A box with a media (SD card, CF card, CD-ROM,…) that requires an optional device just to read the game data is not a good idea imho (and I am not counting the extra cartridges needed: memory expansion, OPL4 cartridge, slot expander,..). Remember that cartridge is the preferred and most valued format by users. It would remind me Snatcher and SD Snatcher, which included a special sound cartridge

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

26-09-2022, 09:17

Yeah, I know what would be the most preferred physical solution, but again, I am not putting up the money for that. If we had a decent budget before release I certainly would have considered it.

The physical version is just "nice to have" and/or for collectors. I'd like everybody to enjoy the game, not only people willing to put up the money for it. If you want to support us, give us some post-development budget or buy whatever the physical version will be.

Van Xan0ri

Master (177)

26-09-2022, 10:08

Wow, this is a cool game! Running it with Carnivore 2 & VG-8235 + Wozblaster.

Van AxelStone

Prophet (3199)

26-09-2022, 17:47

Absolutely congratulation for doing so big production for MSX. At least one game taking advantage of using massive storage! I feel like playing a VGA 90s PC!

Just one question, should be possible a version using PSG instead of OPL4? This version should be playable in all FPGA based MSX without extra hardware, and there are a lot of them

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

26-09-2022, 18:01

Sure. But you will be needing a Z280 processor overclocked at 33Mhz. Will that be all right?

But seriously, we are not going to do that. The sound is 50% of the game's ambience. PSG cannot match that unless I mix 24 channels of PCM data to it.

Van Ivan

Ascended (9353)

26-09-2022, 18:04

AxelStone wrote:

Absolutely congratulation for doing so big production for MSX. At least one game taking advantage of using massive storage! I feel like playing a VGA 90s PC!

Just one question, should be possible a version using PSG instead of OPL4? This version should be playable in all FPGA based MSX without extra hardware, and there are a lot of them

Come on… this is a game to exploit the MSX hardware and some of the most popular MSX extensions. I am surprised by your petition. It’s time to get an OPL4 cartridge if you don’t own one.

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

26-09-2022, 18:38

Ivan wrote:

Come on… this is a game to exploit the MSX hardware and some of the most popular MSX extensions. I am surprised by your petition. It’s time to get an OPL4 cartridge if you don’t own one.

He can always ask. Asking is one thing, and getting—getting's another.

Van The Apeman

Master (245)

26-09-2022, 19:38

My Moonsound v2 reports 256K. I have never opened it, but should it be possible to add such a chip to it to expand it to at least 512K?

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

26-09-2022, 19:41

The Apeman wrote:

My Moonsound v2 reports 256K. I have never opened it, but should it be possible to add such a chip to it to expand it to at least 512K?

Yup. You can. Somebody posted an ebay link in this topic. But first open up your cartridge and check if it has chip sockets for it.

Van ibantxuyn

Expert (127)

26-09-2022, 19:43

Congrats to the developers. This is pretty good work and amazing skills. I cannae believe that this is an MSX game, WOW!!

Van The Apeman

Master (245)

26-09-2022, 20:50

SjaaQ wrote:

The Apeman wrote:

My Moonsound v2 reports 256K. I have never opened it, but should it be possible to add such a chip to it to expand it to at least 512K?

Yup. You can. Somebody posted an ebay link in this topic. But first open up your cartridge and check if it has chip sockets for it.

I seems to have two sockets, both populated with chips:

What is the optimum configuration? Can just buy two of those Hitachi chips from ebay and have 1M, or won't that work?

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

26-09-2022, 20:53

The Apeman wrote:

What is the optimum configuration? Can just buy two of those Hitachi chips from ebay and have 1M, or won't that work?

Yeah go all the way. I upgraded the V2 to 1MB as well. You need to set the jumpers correctly though.

Van The Apeman

Master (245)

26-09-2022, 21:07

Right. Jumpers -> J1 then?

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

26-09-2022, 21:12

The Apeman wrote:

Right. Jumpers -> J1 then?

I have no idea. Maybe start a topic about it. This topic is about the game, not hardware support.

Van Ivan

Ascended (9353)

26-09-2022, 21:42

The Apeman wrote:

What is the optimum configuration? Can just buy two of those Hitachi chips from ebay and have 1M, or won't that work?

I would also like to know how to update correctly my MoonSound. Reading the reactions to the post there is a bunch of people with MoonSounds with less than 1Mb of SRAM.

Van Sebbeug

Champion (400)

26-09-2022, 21:47

wow what a game !!!
insane on MSX !!!

Van AxelStone

Prophet (3199)

26-09-2022, 22:16

SjaaQ wrote:

Sure. But you will be needing a Z280 processor overclocked at 33Mhz. Will that be all right?

But seriously, we are not going to do that. The sound is 50% of the game's ambience. PSG cannot match that unless I mix 24 channels of PCM data to it.

Obviously I wasn't thinking of compressing the 24 PCM channels in the PSG. Going back to the PC similarities, I was referring to something like the Sound Blaster and PC Speaker versions of the same game.

In any case I get your point, sound is part of the atmosphere.

Van black hawk

Expert (124)

27-09-2022, 01:13

Thanks a lot for this. Unbelievable to see this on MSX. Great Stuff!

Van Ivan

Ascended (9353)

27-09-2022, 14:32

KdL wrote:

Ivan wrote:

Is it possible to upgrade a Moonsound with 128kB to 512kB?

Yes, on my Moonsound v2.0 I mounted two Hitachi HM628512LP-7.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/401706327631

This eBay seller does sell them cheaper:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/323999557018

Van max_iwamoto

Hero (643)

27-09-2022, 18:25

Amazing release! Thank you!

Van NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (6067)

27-09-2022, 20:21

Holy cow!

Truly amazing what happens when you look away for a while!? ATM I did play only enough to walk away from the first screen, but that is because I don't want to spoil this once in a lifetime opportunity by playing on an emulator. I want to experience the real deal! I already printed out the manual and made label for my CF-card. I definitely know what I'm about to do on next weekend!

I just emptied my Paypal wallet for these guys, because this is one of the dreams that I've had for a long time. I remember thinking that it would be perfect to have game like this on MSX2 already back in time when I saw Larry 5, but I did not quite believe that there would ever be quite enough persistent graphical skill in MSX community to pull off something like this. Back then I thought that game like this on MSX would likely take whole 32MB partition, but it seems that estimation was not quite enough in this case.

Kudos, congratulations and all other good stuff! You really made my day by replicating the vision inside my head very accurately!

Van MarkNOP

Supporter (6)

27-09-2022, 21:06

Thanks NYYRIKI, for those positive words an a very generous donation! Enjoy!

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

27-09-2022, 21:09

Thanks man, if you come to Beuningen 2023 you can watch us eat your money at the Chinese buffet!

Van inchl

Expert (83)

27-09-2022, 21:40

SjaaQ1 wrote:

Thanks man, if you come to Beuningen 2023 you can watch us eat your money at the Chinese buffet!

We'll make pictures of it :-)
and... thanks for your gift!

Van NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (6067)

28-09-2022, 16:15

My bootleg

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

28-09-2022, 16:59

Hahaha that is is great! But you checked your paypal messages, right?

Van inchl

Expert (83)

28-09-2022, 17:03

haha.... nice to see you are this enthusiastic!

Van msd

Paragon (1515)

29-09-2022, 09:43

Just a remark on the news post.. 128KB VRAM. Is not demanding. That is just standard MSX2. Actually the only thing you could really somewhat classify as heavy requirement is an opl4 with 512KB (which is missing in the post). My recommendation is in the future not to give any classification to heavy or not. It just requires a certain configuration to run.
And this is by far not the most 'demanding' peace of MSX software.

Van wolf_

Ambassador_ (10109)

29-09-2022, 09:50

If ever this goes truly on sale, and if at some point those sales stop, I wonder what the newspost title will be...

sales Sales Discontinued discontinued

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

29-09-2022, 11:16

msd wrote:

Just a remark on the news post.. 128KB VRAM. Is not demanding. That is just standard MSX2. Actually the only thing you could really somewhat classify as heavy requirement is an opl4 with 512KB (which is missing in the post). My recommendation is in the future not to give any classification to heavy or not. It just requires a certain configuration to run.
And this is by far not the most 'demanding' peace of MSX software.

Actually I think you are right. I already had the specs for SD in 1996, except maybe the SRAM for the OPL4. We are just using the hardware that is already out there.

Van max_iwamoto

Hero (643)

30-09-2022, 02:07

MarkNOP wrote:

Thanks NYYRIKI, for those positive words an a very generous donation! Enjoy!

What is the PayPal address to send direct donations?

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

30-09-2022, 07:42

Thanks for the support! You can find the donation button on our site: https://nopmsx.nl . It is the same address as used in my profile.

Van LaDolceDols

Expert (91)

30-09-2022, 14:19

I am a bit late to the party, but what an achievement NOP guys. Congratulations with the release. Hollandse glorie Looking forward to play this on a real MSX machine.

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

30-09-2022, 15:05

LaDolceDols wrote:

I am a bit late to the party, but what an achievement NOP guys. Congratulations with the release. Hollandse glorie Looking forward to play this on a real MSX machine.

You are never late to play this game! We call it "fashionably late". But thanks!

Van sd_snatcher

Prophet (3659)

01-10-2022, 17:38

SjaaQ wrote:

You can find the donation button on our site: https://nopmsx.nl . It is the same address as used in my profile.

Done! Thank you so much for bringing such a high quality MSX2 game for the MSXdev.

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

01-10-2022, 21:29

Thank you sd_snatcher! We appreciate it!

Van Crow

Rookie (32)

06-10-2022, 16:08

Hi. Can somebody help, and send a a load instructions to openMSX 18.0, and openMSX Catapult 18.0 for "dummies". I succesfully loaded a game with a "command line" of Linux, but a game don't start with Catapult... Obviously hdd image is a easiest way to load a game? Solved: Computer: Panasonic MSX turbo R FS-A1GT, extensions: MegaFlashROM SCC+ SD, Moonsound, Misc controls: Joystick port 1: mouse and hard disk: SD.dsk.

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

06-10-2022, 16:07

The easiest way is to take out your flash storage of your real msx, copy over the files, put it back and start it on real hardware.

Maybe post the error message you are getting? I have no idea what goes wrong.

Edit:
I've tested it with Catapult. Selected the extensions:
MegaFlashROM SCC+ SD
moonsound

Any MSX2 will do, but for speed I would select the "Panasonic FS-A1GT". Select the unpacked "SD.DSK" in "Hard disk drive". Select "Joystick port 1": Mouse (tab Misc Controls).

Van Crow

Rookie (32)

06-10-2022, 16:09

Thank for your reply, and thanks for the game.

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

06-10-2022, 16:14

Also make sure you have the right ROM files (as described in the manual). If you get "some kind of" file manager, check the multimente part in the manual (chapter Installation / OpenMSX emulation).

Edit: I just say you solved it already, but this may be useful for other people as well.

Van Crow

Rookie (32)

07-10-2022, 12:11

 /persistent/MegaFlashROM_SCC+_SD/megaflashromsccplussd.sram

I moved above mentioned file to a new created /old -subdirectory, and Catapult? created a new one with same name. That was a thing to me and my brother (In Windows and in Linux), that a game started succesfully. Strange.

Van Wlcracks

Hero (565)

26-03-2023, 10:02

We found at Nijmegen an other system requirement for Sales Discontinued, not mentioned in the requirements list. The system has to have a working and running clock chip. We time, for example, the cutscenes with it.

Van Manuel

Ascended (19465)

26-03-2023, 10:55

It was broken in one machine then?

Van ssfony

Expert (84)

26-03-2023, 11:05

Yes, on mine... I just replaced the battery, but it still doesn't count seconds. So I guess I really do need to replace the clock-chip.
Great service from NOP though, after reporting, they found the issue in minutes

Van Wlcracks

Hero (565)

26-03-2023, 11:20

Maybe the xtal is broken, with a scope you can verify this.

Van Louthrax

Prophet (2465)

23-05-2023, 23:22

Ordered myself a week ago two HITACHI HM628512LP-7 in order to expand my Moonsound in order to finally play Sales Discontinued on real hardware.

Spent one hour figuring one of the chip was defective, one extra hour playing randomly with the different Moosound jumpers, broke one of the chip slots after several removal / insertion trying to have 640KB of sample memory instead of 512KB, fixed that thing, and finally gave up after realizing Sales Discontinued works with only 512KB...

But it finally works Must say it was worth it, I really wanted to play the game on a real MSX hardware. The intro is really funny, ambient music and sound effects sound great so far (my dogs are raising their ears because of the barkings in the street) !

Van Wlcracks

Hero (565)

24-05-2023, 17:28

Enjoy! Thanks for sharing.

Van SjaaQ

Champion (375)

24-05-2023, 18:18

Let me know when you hear that boat horn! Or those neighbors "talking" to each other

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