MSX SP 2022 - Live with Kazuhiko Nishi

msx guru (3927)

01-01-2023, 12:56

So the MSX0 is a matchbox sized rasberry pi-like device with a sensor connected, MSX Turbo is a multi cpu device for educating purposes... And because Nishi thinks that modern tv's need a mediabox connected to make them show Netflix or Youtube, he wants to make an easy to use computer which you can connect to a big TV so you can stream Netflix and YouTube on it... This is the MSX3. Which will be powered by the '9998 video'...

And everyone in the room is applauding...

Van ro

Scribe (4914)

01-01-2023, 13:49

You know, I'm skeptical as well. The ideas of mr Nishi are so far of the MSX standard, I lost interest already. If I want to see some Netflix show, I'll just turn on the (smart) tv and go. And that's just an example of modern techno providing me with services. MSX has no place there, at all.

Having a stack of boards piled up to make one huge IOT something, something that doesn't even have the default MSX Basic/dos/whathave you.... I'm out. Nothing to do with MSX.

What I am super exited about, is the fact that sensei Nishi is having MSX in mind. And the fact that we have more and more connections with the land-of-the-rising-sun when it comes to MSX related matters. Not only mr Nishi, but also developers from back when, even from big companies.

So yeah, am I waiting for another MSX generation? Not really, or not at all. I'd rather have spare parts for my turbo R, to start with. If we're talking hardware, that is.

The Brazilian meeting is awesome, the people surrounding it are awesome, the whole show is awesome. Enough reasons to stay tuned to his old system for much longer.

Van ducasp

Paladin (677)

01-01-2023, 15:42

ro wrote:

You know, I'm skeptical as well. The ideas of mr Nishi are so far of the MSX standard, I lost interest already. If I want to see some Netflix show, I'll just turn on the (smart) tv and go. And that's just an example of modern techno providing me with services. MSX has no place there, at all.

Having a stack of boards piled up to make one huge IOT something, something that doesn't even have the default MSX Basic/dos/whathave you.... I'm out. Nothing to do with MSX.

What I am super exited about, is the fact that sensei Nishi is having MSX in mind. And the fact that we have more and more connections with the land-of-the-rising-sun when it comes to MSX related matters. Not only mr Nishi, but also developers from back when, even from big companies.

So yeah, am I waiting for another MSX generation? Not really, or not at all. I'd rather have spare parts for my turbo R, to start with. If we're talking hardware, that is.

The Brazilian meeting is awesome, the people surrounding it are awesome, the whole show is awesome. Enough reasons to stay tuned to his old system for much longer.

It is naive to think he is doing a commercial endeavor to appease a small retro community and perhaps sell 2, 3,5 thousand units at best...

This is something trying to reach a way broader audience and at the same time paying homage and respect as much as possible for the retro community and the origins of the brand... MSX3 seems like the best they can do to pay homage / respect to the scene, not bad at all, while everyone has their own wish list and will dislike a couple (or a dozen) things

Will this work? Who knows I think that's again, like Turbo-R, too little too late, but really whish Nishi and msx 0 / 3 / Turbo luck, if that was materialized three or four years ago it would have better chance in my point of view.

Van Pac

Scribe (6960)

02-01-2023, 09:24

Understandably Nishi, as a business man, has more plans for this new platform apart from trying to satisfy the current MSX scene. But with every passing day, everything is more confusing and the MSX essence is disappearing... What I'm wondering from the beginning is, will there finally be a version designed and focused on those users that just want to enjoy the MSX experience in a modern hardware? And in that case which one?

Van wolf_

Ambassador_ (10092)

01-01-2023, 21:38

The main problem is that back in the days there were multiple systems, all with their own internal software. Today there are still multiple systems, but they all run one of the few mainstream systems; e.g. portable versions of Windows, some Linux distro, Android, iOS etc. So, the small device to operate your tv already exists as soon as someone makes an app for one of the systems I just listed. CPU, memory, graphics and sound were critical factors in the 80's, not anymore so today.

Nishi wants of offer a solution to a problem that doesn't exist anymore.

Van gdx

Enlighted (6104)

02-01-2023, 17:17

ro wrote:

The ideas of mr Nishi are so far of the MSX standard, I lost interest already.

MSX standard is just:
1/ it can be used on a TV
2/ software can be used on MSX from other brands.

It is difficult to respect the second parameter. The first will be respected it seems to me.

Van ray2day

Paladin (730)

02-01-2023, 23:04

I think MSXVR is even more MSX3

Van ivke2006

Expert (88)

03-01-2023, 11:58

There is a lot of negativism about the things Nishi is working on. But IMHO a lot of people of the MSX scene are still active due to nostalgic reasons. Nishi stated multiple times he doesn’t live in the past and want to make something for the future. So it’s not targeted towards the old MSX scene.
Furthermore, it’s due to translation and cultural differences, sometimes hard to understand what it exactly will be.
My understanding is that he wants the MSX3 to be the ultimate home computer. Multi media, game console, user friendly and easy to be creative or develop with. Not a setup box.
My first 2 MSX computers where also connected to the TV and not a monitor. Consoles are also mostly connected to the TV in the living room.

If and to what extent he will be successful..we will see

Van ivke2006

Expert (88)

03-01-2023, 14:41

No edit? Settopbox not setup box

Van wolf_

Ambassador_ (10092)

03-01-2023, 15:47

The window of editing is limited, after a while you can't edit anymore.

Van Micha

Expert (98)

03-01-2023, 17:24

I could see potential in an MSX0 device, if it is what I think/hope it is... If it is a small box to control IOT stuff and it is programmable with MSX basic, that would be pretty cool (if at the right price).

Van ray2day

Paladin (730)

03-01-2023, 18:58

Quote:

IMHO a lot of people of the MSX scene are still active due to nostalgic reasons. Nishi stated multiple times he doesn’t live in the past and want to make something for the future. So it’s not targeted towards the old MSX scene.
Furthermore, it’s due to translation and cultural differences, sometimes hard to understand what it exactly will be.
My understanding is that he wants the MSX3 to be the ultimate home computer. Multi media, game console, user friendly

Exactly and to my honest opinion the nostalgia is the reason that kept the MSX scene alive in the first place. I have great respect to mr. Nishi and what he created in the past and what he tries to achief in the future. I did not meant to be negative, but I think you have to be realistic.

Quote:

If and to what extent he will be successful..we will see

...indeed. Like I always say: "Keep the scene alive! / Keep up the good work!"

Van PingPong

Prophet (4093)

04-01-2023, 13:34

Latok wrote:

So the MSX0 is a matchbox sized rasberry pi-like device with a sensor connected, MSX Turbo is a multi cpu device for educating purposes... And because Nishi thinks that modern tv's need a mediabox connected to make them show Netflix or Youtube, he wants to make an easy to use computer which you can connect to a big TV so you can stream Netflix and YouTube on it... This is the MSX3. Which will be powered by the '9998 video'...

And everyone in the room is applauding...

I think all those WONDERFUL things have pratically nothing to do with MSX as a retro entusiast would expect.....
So i do not expect a big success......

Van PingPong

Prophet (4093)

04-01-2023, 13:38

ro wrote:

You know, I'm skeptical as well. The ideas of mr Nishi are so far of the MSX standard, I lost interest already. If I want to see some Netflix show, I'll just turn on the (smart) tv and go. And that's just an example of modern techno providing me with services. MSX has no place there, at all.

Having a stack of boards piled up to make one huge IOT something, something that doesn't even have the default MSX Basic/dos/whathave you.... I'm out. Nothing to do with MSX.

those new MSXes are only a different thing with a (non well drawn) MSX label on top..

Van PingPong

Prophet (4093)

04-01-2023, 13:41

ivke2006 wrote:

There is a lot of negativism about the things Nishi is working on. But IMHO a lot of people of the MSX scene are still active due to nostalgic reasons. Nishi stated multiple times he doesn’t live in the past and want to make something for the future. So it’s not targeted towards the old MSX scene.

That's ok, but then, do not call this thing MSX anymore. ;-)

Van ivke2006

Expert (88)

04-01-2023, 14:29

Why not? It’s (to certain extent) compatible with previous MSX generations, it’s developed by the founder of MSX, it’s continues the strong points(cheap, powerful, expandable, multimedia, creative) of MSX in the past..only modernised like IOT focus.
No offensive but It’s not up to the nostalgic MSX users to decide how the MSX future looks. Realistically, hardware architecture cannot remain legacy if new MSX computers should be developed. The same for OS.

Van wolf_

Ambassador_ (10092)

04-01-2023, 15:28

But then the question is whether a brand is allowed to spread its wings into territory it wasn't known for at the start. That's an interesting subject actually. The brand Pioneer is now famous for DJ-controllers, while before that it was just a brand of car radios. DJ's are happy, but I doubt any DJ thinks about car radios when they're using that gear.

On the other side:
What if the old Atari brand starts making gamer PC's (those standard and usually futuristic looking PC cases)? So, a regular gamer PC, with LED-lights everywhere and plexiglass exteriors, with the Atari logo on the case. Would that piss-off the old Atari scene? I think it would, because: why not use another name instead?

So, what Nishi does/wants, I think, is just make 'a product' (of which I doubt there's a viable market, but alas) and he calls it 'MSX'. And yeah, maybe it would be compatible in some way to the old MSX'es, but so is any PC running an emulator. So the real question is: why call it MSX, knowing it's a 40 year old retro brand that has nothing to do with his recent plans? Couldn't he come up with any other name?

Van Latok

msx guru (3927)

04-01-2023, 16:04

wolf_ wrote:

So the real question is: why call it MSX, knowing it's a 40 year old retro brand that has nothing to do with his recent plans? Couldn't he come up with any other name?

Because, for his 'plans', he needs trust. And the overseas MSX retro scene still has trust in Nishi. And therefore is most likely willing to pay his 'crowdfunding'.

Van wolf_

Ambassador_ (10092)

04-01-2023, 16:13

Some business plan then, where you rely on <5000 people who don't even like your product.

Van Latok

msx guru (3927)

04-01-2023, 16:29

wolf_ wrote:

Some business plan then, where you rely on <5000 people who don't even like your product.

If only 100 people transfer 1.000 euros, that's still a lot of ramen ^_^

Van ducasp

Paladin (677)

05-01-2023, 12:11

wolf_ wrote:

So the real question is: why call it MSX, knowing it's a 40 year old retro brand that has nothing to do with his recent plans? Couldn't he come up with any other name?

He owns the brand and if he wants to put it in a matchbox he can. Why? Question is why not? He is a business man and want to generate buzz to his newest products, do you know a better way than having it with a brand that is somewhat known around the world?

Most people still are thinking he is targeting retro community, while in fact msx3 is the closest thing to appeal to that community (and nevertheless the one less talked), msx 0 is his focus, even msx turbo did not get uch attention. His focus isn't retro community but IOT and newcomers to it, trying to offer a different and possibly easier way to enter this. That is the true, IF, and that is a huuuuge IF, IF MSX3 ever gets released and not only MSX0 and msx turbo, that is the product that tries to appease the retro community, and it is far from being the priority.

It is like complaining Volkswagen put a water cooled engine on the new beetle, full of electronics and no longer the simple engine even non mechanics could fix... Why they did that? It is unavoidable

Van ivke2006

Expert (88)

05-01-2023, 12:45

ducasp wrote:

It is like complaining Volkswagen put a water cooled engine on the new beetle, full of electronics and no longer the simple engine even non mechanics could fix... Why they did that? It is unavoidable

Exactly!

Van wolf_

Ambassador_ (10092)

05-01-2023, 15:04

Do note that I don't care a rat's ass about what Nishi's intentions are, nor am I complaining about anything. If ever he manages to bring something onto the market, I expect neither of us will be interested in it. I'm just expressing that it's weird that a new business relies on the name of a mainly 80's system that is currently upheld by <5000 persons worldwide. Whatever extra exposure there could be is probably based on modern-day Metal Gear fans playing the old MG in an emulator.

The Volkswagen-example doesn't work, because car development is a gradual process. So, gradually engines get better, cruise control is added, airco is added, electric windows etc. etc. MSX is not exactly gradual anno today. The last real MSX is about 30 years old, the 1chip is more like a generic fpga-system with cartridge slots. So, anyone born in this millennium... has little connection to the MSX legacy.

How about this one. Forget the Atari example I gave. Let's imagine that now Mattel makes this new gamer PC, with the name Intellivision and the same font. Even though Mattel owns the name and can do whatever with it, would it make actual sense to do so?

Van ray2day

Paladin (730)

05-01-2023, 18:00

Quote:

It’s (to certain extent) compatible with previous MSX generations

Ever heard of OpenMSX?? It's quite 'compatible' as well...

Van ducasp

Paladin (677)

05-01-2023, 21:54

wolf_ wrote:

Do note that I don't care a rat's ass about what Nishi's intentions are, nor am I complaining about anything. If ever he manages to bring something onto the market, I expect neither of us will be interested in it. I'm just expressing that it's weird that a new business relies on the name of a mainly 80's system that is currently upheld by <5000 persons worldwide. Whatever extra exposure there could be is probably based on modern-day Metal Gear fans playing the old MG in an emulator.

The Volkswagen-example doesn't work, because car development is a gradual process. So, gradually engines get better, cruise control is added, airco is added, electric windows etc. etc. MSX is not exactly gradual anno today. The last real MSX is about 30 years old, the 1chip is more like a generic fpga-system with cartridge slots. So, anyone born in this millennium... has little connection to the MSX legacy.

How about this one. Forget the Atari example I gave. Let's imagine that now Mattel makes this new gamer PC, with the name Intellivision and the same font. Even though Mattel owns the name and can do whatever with it, would it make actual sense to do so?

Yeah, I don't care about it either, but hey, here we are discussing it and generating buzz... There were quite a few sites talking about MSX having a new piece of hardware after such a long time... That's exactly why this is being called MSX0 and not NishIOT

And the Beetle example is quite fine, between the last sold original beetle and the new beetle quite several years have elapsed, the only Beetle thing from the one produced in the 80s and 90s to the one produced recently is the name... Computer industry also is about gradual evolution, but if you stop following it, can't expect to have a simple iteration with a minor evolution over the last one, unless of course you are trying to appeal to a niche audience.

I couldn't care less about MSX0 and MSX TURBO, and just skeptical about MSX3, hoping for a nice surprise but not really expecting it... I just understand why Nishi is doing that, and probably this is a chance to be different than the rest of IOT stuff, generate buzz and try to sell it to a broader audience, let's see how it pans out idf it sees the light of the day

Van ATroubleshooter

Expert (97)

10-01-2023, 15:58

I just like it.

Van enribar

Paragon (1206)

17-01-2023, 18:28

in the meantime, the crowdfunding is having great success!
It's a pity that its opened only for Japan audience (for now).
https://camp-fire.jp/projects/view/648742
I trust Nishi and MSX0!

Van Accumulator

Master (150)

24-01-2023, 04:32

I really don't give a f!#k what kind of processor and cores it has. My wildest dream is Nishi-san is chosing a video processor of this era, and not one that is over 20 years old. Above all, providing information how to address this (custom) VDP (NVIDIA, which has the best GPU, no discussion possible, (and able to provide compatibly to Yamaha V9938/V9958, which is also a successor to Texas Instruments, so I dont give a f#!k, or emulating)
Everyone has to move on, but... addressing the VDP directly and instructing GPU without using drivers in order to create unimaginable and epic results is a must!
Assembly is assembly, if you got the vibe, you can code on anything! From a Nuclear reactor to your doorbell.

Van Accumulator

Master (150)

28-01-2023, 12:44

I really hope he will not use a VDP from the 90's. V9990 as it is, is a bit outdated. A VDP/GPU of the year 2023 is more appropriate. Staying in the 90's, is like Konami producing top quality games...

MSX SP 2022 - Live with Kazuhiko Nishi

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